Ep 163: Fabian Tausch
Do’s and Don'ts of Content Creation & Personal Brand, Tips for entering German market, What can other cities learn from Berlin & Silicon Valley
Fabian started podcasting in 2016 when most people didn't know what a podcast was (including 4 out of 5 of his guests). Since then has built the largest platform for tech and startup discussions in Germany. Named among Forbes' 30 under 30, he has accumulated extensive industry expertise from interviewing countless world-class founders and investors.
On this episode we talk about:
Why content creation matters for Founders and Investors
Principles for captivating & effective Content Creation
Do’s and Don'ts when building a Personal Brand
Things Startups should know when entering the German market
How Germany & Berlin became a Startup juggernaut in Europe
What European Tech ecosystem can learn from Silicon Valley
Checkout Unicorn Bakery Podcast here, Fabian publishes some of his content in English as well > https://www.unicornbakery.de/
We are on YouTube and Linkedin as well
Watch select full-length episodes on our YouTube channel > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP6ueaLnjS-CQfrMCm2EoTA
Connect with us on Linkedin > https://www.linkedin.com/company/pursuit-of-scrappiness/
Read the full episode transcript below
Janis (00:02.767)
Hello friends, we're back with another episode of Pursuit of Scrappiness podcast. Whether building a business, running a team or just starting out in your career, we're here to bring you scrappy and actionable insights to help you become more productive. My name is Janis Zeps, I'm here with my co -host Mr. Uldis Teraudkalns, hey...
Uldis (00:19.225)
Yes, still unchanged. Hi.
Janis (00:21.838)
It's a staple of the show. And another thing that we always do, we remind you to subscribe on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Helps more than you know. In exchange to that, you'll find over 160 episodes now there, covering all sorts of topics that you need to become a scrappier and better version of yourself in your life and in your business. Plenty to explore if this is your first episode, so go there, subscribe, click follow. And every Tuesday when we drop a new episode, you'll be first to know. So that's an additional advantage, so please do that.
Thanks for doing that if you have already. All right, well, these days, let's talk about today's topic. These days you cannot go anywhere without hearing the magical world content. We talk about content, we consume content, whether it's TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn posts, tweets, or whatever you call tweets actually these days even. They all form this unit, access, yeah. Is there a term? Okay, access, a terrible but.
Uldis (01:15.929)
Yes, it's terrible, but it is there.
Janis (01:19.246)
but that's not the only thing terrible about X, I guess. So, you know, this is this universe around us and obviously we all, you know, eagerly consume it. We ourselves, of course, are also doing our small share to just add to the noise with this podcast, because the world just needs another podcast. But if we talk about this, you might already suspect we're bringing this up because we want to explore more from the business perspective, you know, how the power of creating good content can be harnessed for your business, for your career, if you're a founder.
an investor or someone maybe looking just to gain edge in your career by just having bigger online presence and reputation. So we have today invited one of the most successful podcasters and content creators on the topic of tech and startups in the German speaking space. He's host of the Unicore Bakery podcast, which he actually started way back in year 2016. It's crazy, crazy long time ago.
Uldis (02:12.857)
before it was cool, no?
Janis (02:14.254)
before, definitely. And it's grown one of the largest podcasts about startups in Germany, if not the largest. He's been named among Forbes 30 under 30 and has released around 500 episodes, I think by now, talking to many of the Europe's most known and most talented founders and investors. We're happy to have today and welcome here, Hey Fabian Tausch. Hey.
Fabian Tausch (02:34.432)
Thank you very much for having me.
Janis (02:37.166)
So today we wanna talk about three broader topics. As you suspect, we talk about do's and don'ts of content creation for founders and investors, especially in startup space. We also wanna get Fabian's experience about, because a lot of companies of course are interested in entering German market and he's talked to every almost meaningful founder investor in that market. So maybe there are some do's and don'ts that you should know if you wanna break into that space. And...
Also just discussion about overall European tech ecosystem and what's going on. So yeah, let's just dive in. Actually, before we dive into hardcore topics, 2016 when you started podcasting, what made you think of it and how did podcast landscape even look then? I remember iPhone had this app always, there was this podcast app, but did people even use it? How did things look back then?
Fabian Tausch (03:56.288)
So it's actually funny. I started studying mathematics and economics in Munich and I realized, okay, I loved math in school, but I will definitely not love it in university. So...
Janis (04:00.237)
Okay, yeah.
Fabian Tausch (04:25.793)
I decided to look around, what could I do differently? And what do I want to learn? And then I stumbled upon entrepreneurship and I never touched base with it due to family or like school or anything. So I had no clue. I didn't know anything about it and I wanted to learn about it. And there were only these marketing and online gurus telling me, that's how you get rich quickly. And I was like, this doesn't look like reality because otherwise,
my parents or at least my parents friends would have been a bit more wealthy than they are probably and I wanted to learn about the topic but not from these people so I saw I'm a 19 year old kid coming out of school wanting to learn from people that I shouldn't sit at a table with so how do I change the dynamic that they actually talk to me and the way that I thought okay this might work is by interviewing them giving them a platform
sharing the answers for other people like me, other kids, young people at first, that maybe have the same questions that I have. And then I looked for a medium that could facilitate that. I looked at blogs, of course, were still a thing back then in 2016. That wasn't like, of course it was not the blog hype anymore, but it was not the like, you could still start a blog. And I looked at YouTube channels. I didn't like written interviews. I didn't read them. So why would I produce them?
Janis (05:43.821)
Hmm.
Fabian Tausch (05:51.17)
And at the same time, I didn't have the money to travel around for YouTube interviews. And then I stumbled upon podcasts and I was like, Hey, that sounds amazing because I see other people interviewing interesting people for like half an hour to an hour. That sounded perfect to me because I wanted to learn from people and half an hour to an hour with a person that I shouldn't sit with is better than no minute sitting with a person. So that's how I came upon.
Janis (06:15.245)
Hmm.
Fabian Tausch (06:19.842)
podcasting and how I started and the landscape I think the easiest to describe without making it like too long. I had to explain to four out of five people what a podcast actually is. It's hard to understand today, but back then I had to say, Hey, is your rate? It's a radio show that you can, or it's basically a radio show that you can listen to on demand. And that's how I started. And when I started, and of course some of the podcasts that we know today were there to back then.
Uldis (06:31.737)
you
Janis (06:35.596)
Hmm.
Fabian Tausch (06:49.346)
but a lot of them weren't and came with the pandemic or a bit pre -pandemic. So that's how it changed. But I chose the medium because it was the best fit for what I wanted to do to meet with people that I wanted to learn from.
Janis (07:05.421)
Yeah, it's interesting to look back at. Of course, it exploded, I think, three, four years ago, but yeah.
I think for us as well, kind of similar motivation. We arrived to it much later than you did, but we also sort of thought, like, you know, if we want to talk to smart people, how do we give some value back? And this, of course, by then, it was easier to explain what podcast is. We had platforms like this to record, but yeah, great process that we embarked on, and in that sense, I've been very happy since. Being on the forefront of just creating good content,
You must also follow a lot of things that's going on. And I'm just thinking 2024, of course, trends also change. In your mind, what is the must haves of creating captivating content? And that will stand out in 2024 because things that worked three, four years ago might not work now. And are there any kind of things that you yourself pay attention to, whatever you produce a show or a post that you put into?
Fabian Tausch (08:10.85)
The first question that I ask myself is who do I produce this for? Like who is my actual audience? Because I think a lot of people just look at likes and views and just try to reach as many people as possible and I think that's a fair approach. But I always wanted to target a specific audience. I always wanted to create content for founders and people that are very closely to become a founder or are working very closely with founders or are investing.
which are also people working closely with founders. So I wanted to create content for those, but specifically for founders actually building companies. And therefore, I have to say, I didn't want that doing that like from the from the first day onward. That's how it transformed over the years because I realized, hey, that's what I want to learn the most about and what I want to focus on. So just a quick add on here. So today, my question is, does this actually add value to founders?
or give perspective on who I am and why I'm doing things. So if you look at my LinkedIn, it's definitely a bit more broad than my podcast, but my podcast is very targeted towards founders. If you're not building a company right now, you might not enjoy my podcast content, which is totally fine. I actually decided, hey, I'm not going into the broadening up, I'm trying to go even deeper into content. So the question with the...
podcast episode is not like what will bring me the most views and listens if I interview somebody, even somebody who has a name. I try to dig into topics that the person maybe talked about on a superficial level, but I want to dig deeper or other topics that they never talked about or were never asked on how they think about building companies. Of course, that might not be the most sexy content then, but it's the most relevant to the audience that I want to serve. So the question that you have to ask yourself is,
Do I want to serve myself? Do I want to serve a specific audience? Or do I want to just create content for everyone? Which in my opinion is a bit harder because you still pick some niche at some point. So besides you're doing comedy, but you're talking business content here most likely. And then thinking about, okay, what's the value that I can add to these people's lives that are in my audience? And...
Fabian Tausch (10:28.931)
that helps me the most even when it's a smaller audience and often my ego kicks and says, Hey, why don't you reach more people? And I'm like, yeah, I would love to, but like the German market is very specific and it's not unlimited. So I have to think differently on do I bring in international people and here and there rather than just broadening up because I don't want to be the content that the best founders don't listen to anymore because they say, Hey, I don't learn anything anymore. It's just a startup and industry podcast.
That's not what I want to be. I want to be like a founder related and like very content driven podcast. And so the question is always what net like a listener told me recently, Hey, it feels like your core KPI is net added founder value. And I think it describes it a very good.
Janis (11:18.818)
In terms of when you produce something, is there any kind of more tactical tricks you have learned, whether it's a LinkedIn post or like a podcast, I don't know, you know, how to make the opening more captivating or any kind of checklist that you use when you put out, I don't know, yeah, LinkedIn post, tweet, X, or YouTube or podcast.
Fabian Tausch (11:43.203)
So, like, even when I'm referring to what I said, like, the most important thing for me is to always keep in mind, would a founder ask a different question right now and go deeper into the topic in an interview, for example, or would they switch topics because they got enough insight and want to challenge a new topic as well, an additional one. From the LinkedIn perspective, honestly, I, there's a typical LinkedIn structure that works. You have a hook.
that drives attention and then you try to back it up and sometimes you... I try to post either videos out of the podcast, I post that I publish a new episode with a few key insights or I publish some personal stuff that might help understand what I'm currently up to. I don't or I'm not like ultra specific and ultra strategic.
Janis (12:28.588)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (12:41.283)
with the stuff that I do, like it's not that I followed this one certain formula that I try to think about, okay, how would I enjoy reading the post and how would I enjoy and understanding the story and not like leaving after the first one or two paragraphs. And that's how I built my posts, but it's more like trial and error every time rather than like the perfect scheme that I follow all the time.
And I'm not posting on X, for example, in Germany, that's not like super huge.
Uldis (13:13.561)
And for the podcast itself, so besides the question whether this is adding value to founders, is there any kind of other key criteria or key things that you take into account when preparing the episodes and doing them?
Fabian Tausch (13:30.083)
It's interesting because that's also, even when it doesn't sound that trivial, that concludes in every part of the preparation till the publishing. This starts with who do I actually invite? Do I invite people that are on the intersection of the startup ecosystem to the broader mass just because they bring reach or do I invite people that are not bringing the most clicks and listens because they are not the personal brands, but they are the people like...
actually building stuff. Like I recently met a founder, Jacob from Camunda. Camunda is doing 100 million in ARR this year and pretty much nobody in Germany knows about them. Like bringing him on is way more relevant to me than somebody else who has like a huge LinkedIn following but doesn't really talk about the startup ecosystem. So that's one of the things that I have to take into account. And then also until like when I think about the title and the description.
Like I'm not click baiting and saying, hey, topic X, I just try to be very clear what you can learn and take from this podcast. So this is the underlying theme. And that's definitely what I focus on more, even when it sounds like it's not specific enough. If you know what you're trying to serve or who you're trying to serve, then you know what to do in the different stages of the...
pre -production and the preparation and the production and then afterwards that helps a lot even when it sounds unsatisfying when I just always refer back to this common theme.
Janis (15:06.698)
Yeah, so also click baiting and how you structure the titles is a different topic. I've noticed a lot of big podcasters are going into very catchy ones, you know, I almost died. Business podcasters, by the way, and I'm like, okay, well, it's probably worth it for them if you reach masses, but at some point, I guess, you can exhaust your audience as well if you're...
doing these cliffhangers all the time. It's quite hard to follow up with the same value as you're teasing, I guess. What about, like, for example, I mean, a lot of founders want to build their own presence online, investors as well. They see value in it. As a professional in this space, what do you see, for example, what advice would you give to a founder or investor who wants to start out any kind of...
do's and don'ts of this space. Or maybe they are like, I think one thing when I talk to people, if they ask about this, they underestimate how much time you actually need to produce good content. Even if you wanna do written posts on LinkedIn, the amount of time, if you wanna do good quality stuff, it will take you, it's a lot. So, you know, one advice I've also been giving some people is like, check that you have that time for it, because like some chat GPT thing, it's not gonna resonate.
Yeah, what do you think from your perspective?
Fabian Tausch (16:37.155)
might resonate, but it's not the same if it doesn't have your tonality, etc. And if it doesn't have your thoughts incubated in it. So there are tools, like there's interestingly one tool that I use by now. It's in beta, but because friends are doing it, but I upload my podcast episode. And then for example, it like picks the most important points and I say, hey, could you please sharpen out point A, B or C? And then...
Janis (16:43.308)
Nah.
Fabian Tausch (17:04.386)
It summarizes the podcast episodes and the takeaways and the action items better than I could do because I have a subjective view even when I'm listening and trying to, yeah, trying to say, hey, that's what we talked about. I use tools like that to help me building, but at the same time, first things I would do when I start is not think about numbers too much. I will try get into posting, even when the first post and the second post are not my best post ever that I will...
Produced throughout the next 50 posts or something and it's super helpful to get into posting and like figuring out okay when I post about this I would have to add more context here So probably this context would be a new post and I could Refer to this topic in that topic and you get into the habit of producing content because when I started I was like, yeah What should I even write about like what would people care and I'm writing them like this makes sense But if this makes sense, I should explain this as well. And then you could
Janis (17:56.558)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (18:02.434)
do a whole new post. At the same time you get sometimes questions that are relevant for a new post itself. You can... But you have to keep in mind that... Because the thing that holds me back the most, and it still does till today, to not post, is that I think, what would this one person think if they read the post?
And of course, you will always find somebody who knows better or who is more experienced or who's more senior. But it's totally fine if they read the post. You just have to be one step ahead of your audience to produce a relevant post to the audience. And sometimes it can be, hey, I found a cool article on the internet and adding some comments or summarizing it and curating. Curating is a great way to start. Finding the content that you enjoy.
Janis (18:55.117)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (18:57.218)
the key takeaways or the key insights and then a few words on your own perspective helps a lot. Reading somebody else's post, seeing, hey, this topic is interesting, but I have a different opinion on it. And just summarizing the point of view from your perspective helps a lot because it gives, it's easy for you because you find a topic that others seem to care about already. And at the same time, you can share your opinion and you get into creating as well. So I would.
try to curate and form opinions from time to time. Of course, if you're in a research business and you're like way more on numbers and facts and slides, super helpful to explain them rather than just posting a PDF. So I always enjoy when people post a report and tell me the key takeaways and then I can look into them like, that's actually smart. I haven't thought about that. So I would say the one thing,
Janis (19:46.926)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (19:56.309)
is getting started and like doing it regularly, bringing the time as you said, like, and saying, hey, I take time and not like just write two minutes and hope that it works. It's not, it's not X. LinkedIn is not X or also producing a podcast is not X. You can't type like three, three rows and then it's like done. Three lines aren't enough for LinkedIn most of the times. And then at the same time, knowing that if a post doesn't
Janis (20:15.597)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (20:26.049)
perform, it's not the end of the world. You can still post something new later today or tomorrow or the day after. So it's totally fine if things don't follow through and just test things out. And I would not only optimize for numbers. So I think that's a few of the things that I have in mind when I think about this and talk to people.
Uldis (20:46.969)
We kind of jumped immediately into doing and that is taking a lot of time and you have to iterate etc. But we didn't really touch upon why to do it and Jan said that you know content is everywhere and everybody should do it. But from your perspective what are the biggest benefits that you can get?
from creating and posting content and what you're maybe missing out on if you don't. Maybe that's even more important.
Fabian Tausch (21:20.577)
Yeah, so first from my personal experience, like I built my whole network through content and by looking at it, I'm quite happy and thankful that I did. So you can get to know a lot of people either through podcasting like you to do or through posting on LinkedIn and then talking to like -minded people in the comments and DMs or on X or wherever you are active. I think it's helpful for building a network. It's helpful for,
also finding employees if you're a founder and want to hire. Like being present helps you finding people that are like -minded and those can be just peers, those can be potential employees, those can be investors, like in the early stages, I think in the later stages it's a bit more numbers driven. And this also can be customers. And at a time where B2B, ZAS companies, for example, often are like, or mostly are founder -led sales until the first million in ARR,
you have to come through and cut through the noise to reach your customers. And reaching potential customers is definitely also helpful or easier if you produce content for them that actually involves them and helps them. Or if they see you because you're on the right stages or post around those topics. It's definitely not the recipe that automatically guarantees success, but it can definitely support your way.
going forward and then also I know a few people who used content to close their first few handful of customers. Of course, at some point you want to build a process that's repeatable and that's totally fair, but in the first days and weeks and months it can be super helpful. And then you have a base that you can still use for more organic inbound or you can use it for employer branding. And...
The talent of war is like, I would say not as harsh at the moment as in 2020 and 2021, but it's still, you still want the best people and not like the people that don't have a job right now. So it's super helpful to find people that like your mission because it's easier for people to understand if they like your mission, if they like you, if they like your point of view, if they like what you're doing, if they on the one hand heard about you.
Fabian Tausch (23:41.889)
have more content that they can engage with or understand before they apply or while they're applying. So there are so many like sales network hiring and probably even more that I forget right now that helps or that's easier to do with like content and also personal branding or branding at all.
Uldis (24:07.353)
Guys, what are we doing here? We're just minting competition, giving all this advice. I just realized we have to stop immediately.
Janis (24:12.558)
Yeah, free. Well, if you're in your business and you're trying to lift off the ground, if it helps, happy, if you're starting a podcast. No, I mean, but about the, let's say you're a founder, what's your thoughts on this? We've spoken also to a few founders who are active on social media and one kind of stereotype maybe is like, if you're a founder, you shouldn't have too much time to post.
or something like that. Or VCs on the other hand, there's also the stereotype that the VCs are just posting and they are, you know, right. What's your thoughts on these stereotypes?
Fabian Tausch (24:53.377)
I think there's definitely times where you focus a bit more on building as a founder and times where you like if posting is a part of your sales then and you get leads through it over time and you can close a customer then it's actually helping your company if you're just posting to polish your ego and like be like yeah have me more followers right now that's like a vanity metric I think you have to look at okay
Am I getting an industry expert or am I becoming an industry expert? Am I targeting accounts that we want to sell to, et cetera, or am I targeting potential employees? Those all are topics that are way more relevant, but if you're just posting to be posting, it's definitely not the right thing. So I was in New York recently and I talked to Matt Turk from Firstmark. He's a managing partner there and...
some of you might heard of him because he posts a lot of VC memes and venture memes. And I sat there with another founder that I was with and asked him, hey, would you recommend personal branding for founders? And he's like, yeah, it absolutely helps to get like the company off the ground if you're doing it specifically, if you're just doing it to do it. And as I said, like just to gain followers for nothing, that's not helpful because of course, if you're focusing on a niche,
you will not gain as many followers as if you're posting memes. At the same time, you are, but you're gaining relevant followers, relevant network for the industry you're tackling, and then it's super relevant. So I would try to look at it like two sides of the metal, like if you're doing it to actually boost and build a business.
Yes, you can take the time. If you're just doing it to please your ego, probably you shouldn't.
Janis (26:46.158)
Yeah. And I also truly believe if you're putting in effort and producing something that's good quality, just thinking about how even businesses can stand out these days, especially in the early stages, I mean, this is one of the few avenues that are available to founders if you're captivating. And to be honest, of course, you know, not all have talent for writing or being funny, and this is fine, you know, but...
Even then you can probably add value if you work on it. Of course, the first post might not be greatest one ever, but if you put consistency in it and if you're methodical about the process, it's hard to imagine that you're successful in business, but you cannot crack how to improve over 100 posts. So yeah, that's I think the same observation that also we hear when we speak to people.
Fabian Tausch (27:46.817)
One of the most interesting dynamics that I realized over the years, because I'm doing this consistently for like seven and a half years with the podcast. And then a few years later, I started doing LinkedIn, I think 2019 or something. And when I reach out to people and they're like, yeah, I saw your content for a few years now, happy to talk. People that I normally would not have been able to connect with. And that was back then the game changer when I was like, okay, I need to do more and more content. Of course it has to be relevant.
Janis (27:56.91)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (28:15.393)
But at the same time, of course, content is my job. So please don't spend as much time producing content as I do when you're a founder and building a company. But for me, it was like a vehicle to get in touch with people that I definitely would not have been able to if I would have not produced that much relevant content. And that changed how I look at it even more. So that was the best effect that I had throughout the years.
Janis (28:44.399)
Yeah. And also for the founders, like, you know, you want to sell to someone and exactly that person might not have even know that you exist. But if you're posting, you know, you might have come up on the radar a few times and then when you reach out, it can be very different. And, you know, lastly about this, we touched a bit AI and I was, you know, we are also using some of the tools and I think for research and summarizing, they are super, super powerful.
So I'm not against that in any way. I guess I was just thinking, if your hope is that you're gonna put in, give me 10 posts for a week and that will be your content plan, who knows, maybe you succeed or not. In terms of productivity tools in this space, anything you can suggest people look into?
Fabian Tausch (29:34.752)
productivity space. I honestly think I could implement AI more and more. I use it mostly on the content side by now, like in the post production when stuff is ready to make it faster to prepare it for the other channels and stuff like that. So I think I have a lot to learn here on my own and don't want to sound like I...
Janis (29:45.55)
Hmm.
Fabian Tausch (30:01.408)
half tested at all, so happy to get recommendations as well.
Janis (30:06.574)
I was just thinking now about the tool like we ourselves use for clips, this Opus, super good tool. You know, we feed in this material and it would automatically find the best bits and of course we can edit it a bit and so on. But I was just thinking even if...
Uldis (30:21.497)
It's literally saving lives, you know, several hours each week.
Janis (30:24.43)
saving this. No, even when we started, which was not that long ago as you did, but like three years, I think three and a half, we reached out and upworked to some people and said like, okay, we will have this podcast. Can you do some clips for us? And what did this guy quoted like 400 per video or something? Yeah. Yeah. We're like, come on, you know, and now it's, now it's, now it's like close to zero, right? But I was just thinking a tip. If you're a founder and you use such a tool as this Opus,
Uldis (30:38.969)
400 per week for four videos I think or three videos.
Janis (30:52.974)
you can just record yourself speaking for an hour as well. If you're smart about your stuff, just record yourself and it will, you know, afterwards generate content for like two weeks for you to post if you want it. So there are these hacks that even without much effort, you can get around. If you're knowledgeable about your business, you know, just talk about it for 30 minutes and you will have a ton of sunbites. Obviously you need to be knowledgeable. So that's a small, small caveat. Yeah, well, we all can talk.
Uldis (31:16.601)
and be able to talk.
you
Janis (31:21.934)
I wanted to talk... Well, another topic we wanted to discuss with you. A lot of businesses where we are from, the Baltic states, north of Europe, they always start in the small markets, so they all immediately want to go international or global, at least international. And the German market is obviously one of the destinations where a lot of B2B SaaS companies also want to end up in. Big market, a lot of companies.
Uldis (31:23.289)
Arguably, yeah, maybe.
Janis (31:51.886)
and very attractive in that sense. What do you think, for example, like you've spoken to founders, you've spoken to investors, company owners, if a company wants to enter the market with a B2B SaaS product, what are some of the basic things they should get right about it or some kind of advice about entering German market?
Fabian Tausch (32:12.031)
So first of all, be happy that you're in a market that's too small to build a solid company just within this one market, because that's one of the biggest fallacies that German startups have. They sometimes just start running in the German market, build for the German market, and then they're like, yeah, we have solid business now, but we have venture money in, so we need to scale, and it's a completely different business to scale from that point when you thought one market first and not globally first. I heard from...
several founders, some that I'm invested in and some that I just know, that the biggest issue coming into the German market is that people and also mid -market companies will definitely ask you to translate your full product in German. So you should be ready from a stage perspective to localize when you're actively targeting the German market because it's just...
the mid -market and like the SMEs and everything, they are like very traditional and they are very specific about their needs to use the German language and therefore, and I think that happens with France and others as well, but therefore I would choose wisely if I want to build a global company mostly in English or if I'm fine with localizing, this depends on if you're product led, if you're like actively doing sales and trying to acquire enterprises, so.
It depends a bit on what you're doing, but you have to be aware that the localization efforts will be there and your team should be able to do that from a capacity perspective, because otherwise it will be hard to sustain in markets like Germany. And I know I make this a huge point now, but for example, I know founders that said, okay, we only built an English product and we go to the markets that accept that and still build a sustainable and successful business. And...
Janis (34:06.222)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (34:08.769)
Therefore, you always have the question, is it now the right time to go into a market like Germany and localize? And do we have a team for that and capacity? Or do I find another market that's fine with an English solution? And this depends, of course, on your strategy. Like, do you think Europe first? Do you think globally and to go US first, for example? Do you are you at a point where it just makes sense to add the German market? But this is one of the things that I would definitely focus on. And that's also why I think it makes sense to hire.
locals, at least for the go -to -market. It makes sense to think then, like when you go to Germany, like find people that think German first, because it's a bit harder if you're not from here, if you're doing actual like sales and talking to the potential customers, because even when their company language might be English, if they have the legal stuff and bureaucracy stuff,
then it gets German quite quickly and then it will be a lot of fun if your team isn't prepared for that. So it sounds like the worst idea ever that I'm, how I explain it right now, I just want you to be cautious and not like thinking, yeah, Germany is just like any other market. They are a bit like, focus on themselves and you have to have that in mind.
Janis (35:30.158)
Yeah, large enough to be kind of self -sufficient. And I've also, like, it's in most countries that are large enough, everybody, of course, speaks some level of English and you can say like, okay, cool, we can talk. But whenever it comes to like harder negotiations, contracts, legal stuff, people will resort back to saying like, okay, I'm comfortable in my language, I'm not gonna use my...
not so great English to talk about tough topics. So at some point, if you cannot offer that service, then yeah, you might be leaving some opportunities on table. I guess I could second that as well.
Uldis (36:10.777)
I spent a lot of time actually selling in all kinds of countries in Europe in English based on the assumption that everybody speaks English, right? Because pretty much everybody we know speaks very good English. So it's quite a quite narrow minded approach. But yeah, with bigger or smaller success. But yeah, definitely felt that it's not the case.
case.
Janis (36:42.19)
Another topic thought of maybe asking, what's your impression? Is Germany an easy in that sense market to enter? Because I'm looking at a lot of companies here and I cannot, for example, comment about France, maybe or Italy that well, but a lot of companies, the startups that have been built in Germany are kind of like, you know, what was working successfully globally, they took it and they executed well and they grew big in Germany on their own. So in that sense, like...
If you're coming from UK with the original idea, maybe it's not even working that well. I don't know what's your observation on the topic.
Fabian Tausch (37:19.009)
I mean, when we look at the startup background of Germany, then we quickly think about Rocket Internet, who only took ideas from that worked internationally and built them from the German ecosystem with German people, and then thought about, okay, what are other underserved markets that we can build locally in, and then brought it, for example, to South America or to Australia or stuff like that, or Asia, Africa. So,
Janis (37:27.374)
Mm -hmm.
Fabian Tausch (37:44.481)
I would not say it's an easy to enter market without a local understanding. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all the things I mentioned show quite easily why it might be hard without a local understanding here. And so all the people that I know who successfully made it in the US, for example, like Germans that went to the US, often one of the founders moved over to actually push the market efforts.
And it's easier for a German who already speaks English to go there than for a US company or Estonian company or anywhere else where nobody speaks German to come to the German market and do the same effort. So it's definitely hard and you need a country lead in my opinion. That's also why we see, for example, the NFL American Football Association hiring a country lead to do their expansion in Germany, which is their fastest growing market, but they know, okay, with ours.
current team we couldn't do it so we hire somebody like that and if the largest associations that have like a natural timing advantage right now in Germany hire local players to do that I think that's a sign that it's hard to enter market even when your product picks up you need somebody locally to push the efforts forward.
Janis (38:41.294)
Mm -hmm.
Uldis (39:07.705)
Yeah, for those guys especially, they have basically monopoly on that sport. There's no alternative if you want to see people smash helmets together. Okay, maybe ice hockey is the closest thing. But even those guys realize that you need to make an effort.
Janis (39:29.582)
Yeah, if we switch to the VCs and investment and there's a lot of big and good funds also based in Germany, what's your outlook? You've talked to a lot of investors as well. What's their mandate? Are they looking at investing in local companies only? Are they looking at UK, France? Are they open to companies from Latvia, Estonia, Finland? What's your outlook?
Fabian Tausch (39:57.985)
So it's not black and white as always, but most of the funds are more European right now. So of course there are funds that are like a bit governmental as well so that they look on Germany only, but most of the funds that are like built by former entrepreneurs or from former investors or whatever that are looking into all kinds of companies.
all over Europe mostly, sometimes even the UAE or sometimes a bit of their money goes to the US. Of course, when we look at portfolio construction, I think it's quite natural that a larger amount of their deals will be in Germany and countries closer to Germany because they have their stronger network here. But they add on more and more deals in different countries. And you then have
funds that even hire partners for different areas. The first area is often Nordics or UK or France or stuff like that, like the larger countries around, but still even on a lookout for companies in the Baltics, for example, I think early bird did a lot of effort there for a while and did the UI path deal and some others. So they are investing, but I would say it's.
still more likely for them to invest in a German company than in a Baltic company.
Uldis (41:29.145)
I did a fundraising around a roadshow a couple years ago and actually some of the most engaged and interested conversations was with German VCs. So it was definitely, I didn't see any kind of barriers there or they seemed very, very open to work with companies outside of Germany.
Janis (41:57.294)
Another thing that's like, if we look at Berlin, for example, known for startups in recent years, has not been always so, but has established a sort of reputation now. And I wanted to get your thoughts about what can other cities maybe learn from...
from what Berlin did right or like the ecosystem did right to attract those startups, to cultivate those. You mentioned like I think Rocket Internet was probably one of the first big startup -ish companies that was established here. But since then, it's known as the, probably after London, the biggest and also in terms of funding, probably the second biggest location, if I'm not mistaken also. What did...
Yeah, what is there for other cities to learn to cultivate a startup scene like in Berlin?
Fabian Tausch (42:54.561)
So I would say, I will put it in perspective because I was recently in New York and San Francisco, but I will start with Berlin. Berlin is super vibrant. Berlin has an art ecosystem, has a party ecosystem with all the techno club and like lots of people traveling here for that. It has of course a tech ecosystem. It was quite reasonably priced for a while. By now it's becoming expensive as well.
Janis (42:59.694)
Mm -hmm.
Janis (43:21.454)
It was him.
Fabian Tausch (43:22.369)
So it was reasonably priced for a while and those are just something you still have like politics like the political center of Germany is here. So you have a lot of ecosystems going hand in hand, which is by the way the complete opposite of the Silicon Valley. I think Bill Gurley at some point said, okay, San Francisco is far enough away or as far as possible from San Francisco, from Washington.
That's why nobody at Washington cares what we do here from an innovation perspective, we can just build. And I was there and like in San Francisco, cafes close at 5pm and bars close at 10pm and then nothing happens in the city afterwards. And then if you're going out of San Francisco to Palo Alto, to the Silicon Valley, there is nothing. You can, you have just like one house next to each other and then probably a cafe here and a restaurant there and you can just work, meet people or just go to bed and do or do sports. And...
So it's a bit different in San Francisco than in Berlin. So, and both could work like the just focused on building part and also the, we want a vibrant ecosystem and just like have everything around that you could have fun and work. And, but I think Berlin is a lifestyle city. So it feels a bit more like New York when you find search a comparable for in the U S because.
or LA maybe even. But New York for example, different ecosystems. You have the financial part, closeness to Washington, you have lots of bars and diners, you have the Broadway, you have a lot of shows, you have so much happening and it's way more expensive but there is, San Francisco is expensive as well. But you have so much stuff happening that you also attract a lot of talent.
So what Berlin, what you can learn from Berlin is definitely that you have a variety of, you have the money sitting here, like with the, with the venture investors, not as concentrated as in Paris, for example, with the station F, but, or in Paris in general, but you have it in Berlin a lot. Some of them have Munich offices, some are in Cologne, but it's like mostly Berlin. You have a lot of companies you have.
Fabian Tausch (45:46.368)
the early rocket people mostly in Berlin. Of course, some of them are distributed. It's not black and white here again. And you have a large city with like every part of the city is so on its own or its own vibe that you can choose the life that you want to live in Berlin. For example, for myself, I chose a very tech -heavy, no party, not much into art and here and there, more into sports kind of lifestyle.
There are others that are only into partying and maybe a bit of work or even studying, however they want to choose. And that's a completely different life. We live our lives without ever touching base, which is totally fine for me. So you can put your life together in Berlin as you like. And that makes it hard to copy because of course such ecosystems on all sides are not like arising.
Uldis (46:18.473)
you
Janis (46:19.342)
you
Fabian Tausch (46:43.296)
in minutes or even weeks or months. It's something that grew over the years and decades here in Berlin. But I think trying to take some of the things as inspirations can be helpful. But if you're San Francisco and it's all about work, where you live currently and want to build an ecosystem, then probably look at San Francisco and not at Berlin and say, hey, we don't have the party side and this and that.
There are other ecosystems that are in the complete opposite of Berlin that sometimes even work better.
Janis (47:17.134)
Well, one thing all companies, growing companies are consuming like crazy is of course you need people all the time, you know, different types of talent. And I think, you know, in Berlin, if you speak to people and know what's your impression, but I would say most I've talked to are not from here originally. You know, they moved here because of the opportunities. And that is, that's a big advantage that I think, yeah, if...
In that sense now remote work has opened it up also to where we're from, where there's a lot of demand for talent, but we just can't get people to move there fast enough. So at least the remote setup allows you to hire some people, some positions. But I think that's probably the one thing that always, if you want to grow, if you want to expand your business companies, your ecosystem, it will require talent. So figuring out how to attract and get.
get as many people as you will need there is crucial. And San Francisco is just different, I guess. People kind of move there as a, you know, to a mecca of startups to just, you know, to learn, to embrace themselves there for a few years at least, I think that's the goal for many people in the field.
Fabian Tausch (48:27.521)
San Francisco feels like you sign a contract of okay, I'm here for building and that's why I'm quite open sharing with you my network and my expertise because I know we're all more successful if we help each other. So let's just focus on building, be a bit more transactional than in other cities and just go, just let us do something. And that's a bit more different in Berlin, for example, I think here, people are a bit more gatekeeping. It's better than in other cities, but still, that's still a thing. And...
Yeah, so talent is definitely one of the most important parts that that's because of the vibrant ecosystems. It's not only the tech ecosystem, as I explained, that it makes like people come here for different reasons, and then you can still soak them into the startup ecosystem at some point.
Janis (49:11.844)
I'm interested to get your thoughts. I know you went to US recently. I saw you also posted some content from there and some observations.
What are some of the realizations in your trip, like on the differences of Silicon Valley, US, and what we have here in Europe? Just interested to get your thoughts, how different or ahead or behind, how do you compare the two parts of the world in terms of tech and yeah.
Fabian Tausch (49:44.93)
important realization. I didn't know LinkedIn has a German co -founder. Good to know. I did a podcast with him, but super interesting. So sometimes even the companies that we know here, we do know nothing about. So we only know the one, two, three people that were mostly involved. So I think I talked about some of the observations in New York and San Francisco already. I will not re -
Uldis (49:50.585)
Hahaha.
Janis (49:50.703)
Fabian Tausch (50:14.081)
recall them right now, but the biggest part for me was I have to be more often there more often because people are very open in introducing you to others if you're there. It's super hard to get remote introductions or it works, but it's like the easiest thing. It's super easy to be there and like bounce around and like from one person into another and then they introduce you to another person if you have some time and that's super helpful. And then there are a lot of people who spent decades like
two, three, four decades into building. So you find and you meet the first go to market member of LinkedIn and this guy and that guy and you're like, Whoa, that's something that like the German ecosystem is or also the European ecosystem is comparably young. Even when you find the first person that was one of the go to market guys and one of the larger European companies, then they did one or two stations. The other person in the valley then did like three, four or five stations and you're like,
Holy crap, I know most of these companies though. It's super interesting to hear how the differences are. And so you have a deeper level of expertise that's helpful to get context. Not everything is applicable to the German market or the European market, but it's super, super helpful to get a different perspective. Also, like it's an interesting take. Like one of my friends is building a software agency here in Germany and...
serving European clients, nobody needs a software agency in San Francisco. They can all like, either you find a student that's quite good already because they're studying there and like engaged in several projects, or you can code yourself or you know somebody as a technical co -founder or whatever, but nobody needs software agencies, for example. So on the one hand, that's interesting and you can laugh at it, but at the same time, that's an opportunity if you understand better how they build product in...
the US, you can still serve your clients in Europe better. So it's nothing that we don't need it in Europe, but it shows that talent is everywhere and so distributed and everybody like wants to do something that you find, somehow you find a person to build with, which is not always true here, which is totally fine. And it's just an observation. And so and from a from a capital perspective, like, of course, there's more capital in the US at the same time.
Fabian Tausch (52:38.689)
It's more transactional. So I was told by a few founders and investors, Hey, you should not meet us too early. Like you should not meet the investors too early. You have to like be quite sure that you have a timeline on, Hey, at some point we want to raise like in nine months or something. And then you give regular updates and then you try to get them involved at the same time with founders or others. It's like always like, what can you help me with or what can you, like, how can you,
deliver value to what I do and that's how they try to connect while I have the feeling or at least my approach in Germany and in Europe is a bit more of a hey let's get to know each other try to find things that we can help each other with it's not always transactional but the US feels a bit more that way.
Janis (53:32.368)
Yeah, I mean, actually, I think out of, I don't know, the last 15, 20 episodes, I think once or twice this topic has come up also with other guests that just if you want to sell to that market, that kind of, you know, being there, being present at least for a period of time or occasionally for a certain amount of time is super crucial. And I think it's also echoed in what you said.
Yeah, super interesting discussion. I think we extracted a lot of interesting insights. If you're a founder, investor, listen to some of these if you want to start your content building or entering German market, which I know a lot of companies is willing to do in the near future. Yeah, thanks a lot for having, I think, awesome discussion.
Fabian Tausch (54:22.337)
Thank you so much. If I can be helpful for anybody to enter the German market or something and you need some more perspective, ping me on LinkedIn. And if I may, there is still an English feed for the Unicorn Bakery with all the English episodes. Feel free to give it a listen. Thank you so much for having me.
Janis (54:38.928)
Awesome, yeah, definitely check out Unicorn Bakery. You have a lot of English episodes and those who are not in English, I know a lot of people who can maybe understand some German. So you have interviewed pretty much all the people that people need to know in that market. So yeah, if you're interested about this, then definitely check it out.
Fabian Tausch (54:58.689)
Thank you guys.
Uldis (54:59.737)
Alright, thank you. Thank you.
Janis (54:59.791)
And to listeners, we see you next week on Tuesday. Bye.
Uldis (55:04.473)
Thanks, bye.
Please note that the transcript text is AI-generated. We apologize for any potential errors or inaccuracies. Thank you for your understanding.
