Ep 166: Anna Strubel
Can you combine kids with career in Tech? Challenges women face at work after pregnancy, FemTech potential & what founders should put in shareholder agreements
Anna Strubel is the founder of CARA Health, a FemTech startup supporting women in their journey to motherhood. The company recently raised a seed round and is part of a burgeoning wave of FemTech startups. Prior to building CARA, Anna worked over six years as a pediatric nurse, specializing in intensive care for premature and newborn babies, as well as in maternity care for women. She moved to Tallinn during Covid from Germany, and is now building her company there.
On this episode we talk about:
The emergence and potential of FemTech
Building a femtech company
Challenges for women in tech and startups
Technological innovations in womenβs health
How to make your company more parent friendly
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Read the full episode transcript below
Janis (00:03.982)
Hello friends, we're back with another episode of Pursuit of Scrappiness podcast. Whether we're building a business, running a team, or just starting out in your career, we're here to bring you scrappy and actionable insights to help you become more productive. My name is Janis Zeps. I'm here with my co -host, Uldis Teraudkalns Hey.
Uldis (00:21.056)
hi back in the confines of a recording studio or room.
Janis (00:29.102)
I love how you did one other episode and now you're probably going to say like, it's so weird to be back in the... Well, listen to our previous episodes that we published. Actually, we had one interesting recording the tool just did live. Scroll to our feed. This is actually what I'm going to start with. Go to our feed, please, because before we start, we always ask you to follow and subscribe on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Helps more than you know.
Anna Strubel (00:36.029)
Hehehehe.
Janis (00:56.174)
We have over 160 episodes waiting for you there. Those topics are always evergreen, as we like to say. So if this is your first episode, there's plenty, plenty to explore. And by following us on Spotify and Apple, you will just be the first to know when new episode comes out every Tuesday. But about today, well, when we started our pod, one of our goals for ourselves, a selfish goal, was to learn about new things and also about new perspectives that we otherwise might not.
learned that much about. And as you notice, we're very, the co -hosting team is very male dominated, so we're two dudes. So there's a lot of things we maybe are not able ourselves to cover in full detail. And very often we came across these things that, you know, basically how men don't fully realize how different the same day experiences at work or society can be for men and women. And this is a topic we thought of.
digging in today a bit more. There's also a lot of technology products that are being built specifically around women and their needs and addressing certain things that affect women. And this represents, of course, also a business opportunity for a lot of people who are listening to podcasts who just want to build good products and help the world. So this is the topic that we want to explore today. We're very happy to have a guest that can help us in this perspective.
or happy to have Anna Strubel with us today. Hey.
Anna Strubel (02:26.397)
Hi, Helen.
Janis (02:27.694)
And as founder of Cara Health, they very recently raised $620 ,000 to scale their product and offer prenatal and postpartum support to more female customers in Europe. Cara Health actually is part of a growing wave of FemTech startups. Probably North America is the most active market, but I also see a lot coming up in Europe.
And this is an angle we haven't covered so far. So basically, exactly the tools and apps and all the things that are being built for women and their specific needs. So we decided to sit down with Dana and discuss the industry, its opportunities and its challenges. And if you're a lookout for new business opportunities for your startup, maybe this is the one to start with. We also will dwell into female -specific challenges actually in the startup workplace. We're going to dedicate part of our episode to that, which I think...
It could be very interesting also to a lot of male listeners to just understand how it works. And we're especially going to talk about how pregnancy affects and interacts with your career plans and especially in tech and startups. So I think quite a productive and busy discussion coming up. And yeah, well, first question I wanted to ask, if we look at the number of babies being born in Europe and Estonia and also Germany, where you're expanding now,
I think the numbers are going down all the time, right? So you're opening a product specifically for pregnancy. How did you decide to launch Car Health?
Anna Strubel (04:00.51)
Yeah, I think Cara was founded in a sense of a really, really practical reason. So what happened is when I moved to Estonia three years ago was that I, me together with my two co -founders Karina and Cairo, found a problem in the Estonian system and that was the lack of postpartum home visits by midwives.
So it was really something that was a bit worrisome because the VHO recommends to have at least three of those in Germany. The government pays actually to have midwives come to your home and support women after birth actively. And yeah, they weren't happening here in Estonia. So two and a half years ago, we sat down, we talked with a lot of medical specialists in the field here with gynecologists, midwife.
Janis (04:27.885)
Mm -hmm.
Janis (04:45.198)
Mm -hmm.
Anna Strubel (04:53.95)
lactation consultations, everybody who had a touching point with a woman during the maternity period. And they were also super worried that these actually weren't happening. But they were, in a sense, stuck in the system. And I felt that really, because my background is as a pediatric nurse. So I worked for over seven years, actually, as a nurse supporting women and families during pregnancy, birth, and then also with the newborns in hospital.
And I really felt this being stuck in the system and not actually having the opportunity to find a solution or even if you wanted to, maybe you didn't have the funds or the actual time to do it. So Karen and Karina and me decided that we are going to start these postpartum home visits here in Estonia. And we were lucky after our networking with the medical specialists to get awesome midwives on board who said, you know,
Janis (05:31.342)
Mm -hmm.
Anna Strubel (05:46.847)
if you guys will start this process, we will be happy to offer these visits to women. And so, yeah, two and a half years ago, we started these postpartum home visits in Estonia. But what happened more or less out of that is we didn't just meet really awesome midwives, but we met awesome gynecologists and other specialities like physiotherapists. So we said, you know...
Actually, women have to go to a lot of different places during pregnancy and the postpartum period to find professional help. So why can't we do this actually in one place? So a woman really doesn't have to think about or doesn't have to travel across the whole city to find all of these specialities, but can she just come to one place to get all of the support? And that's how we've fully then started CARA, so offering high quality.
holistic services to women during the maternity periods, so pregnancy and postpartum especially. And yeah, we in Tallinn are supported over 1 ,000 of women in our little health and wellbeing space. And this is actually where we found out what the real problem is that technology can solve. So what happened is that the woman would come to our midwives, to our gynecologists and get...
consultations and my co -founders, Kaya and Karina, they actually have built a business beforehand, before Kaya. They for five years have built a high quality B2B and B2C baby essential business. They were distributors in the Baltics and over 60 shops. And so we were bootstruck to that point and we were working in their shop. And what happened is that the...
women would go to the midwives and afterwards would come to the shop and, you know, find something nice for themselves or their baby. And we would really interact and wanted to, we wanted to understand what were the real struggles of women, what were they facing and how could we help them. And what we had had in this period of approximately seven months was three key learnings. And the first key learning was that
Anna Strubel (07:53.47)
the often women actually didn't know what would help them. So if you don't know what really helps you, you can't even go to Google and search for it because you really have no understanding of it. The second point was that the maternity system was hyper fragmented. And this wasn't just the services that were happening, but the study showed that on average, a woman during pregnancy uses 12 different sources to find one solution for one of her pregnancy symptoms. What was even more interesting was that these 12 different sources were not just 12 different articles, but
Janis (08:01.518)
Mm -hmm.
Anna Strubel (08:23.198)
It was really divided into a lot of different lifestyle fragments of the woman's life. So it was one resource was definitely Google. The other was maybe an app. The other was midwife, a hospital, a pharmacy. So it was really, really highly fragmented in a sense, also in the variability of it. And the third learning was that these fragments did not communicate with each other, which created so much more errors in the outcome of the health and wellbeing of the woman.
So a woman would go to a midwife as asked who is the best in her field and knows everything really specialized in the medical term and would then go to a pharmacy to find a product because the midwife said, you know, during pregnancy it's important to take more vitamin D. What would happen is this is where the journey ends for the woman. She then goes to a pharmacy and tries to find the perfect vitamin D supplement because during pregnancy you want the best for you and your baby.
And these products would vaguely explain how to take it in. So products would say, take this vitamin D supplement three times a day. And the woman would be like, okay, I will take the last with my dinner. But everybody from the medical side actually knows that if you take vitamin D past 3 p it interferes with your sleep. So because these fragments were not communicating with each other or also used each other's knowledge, it created a lot of errors for the woman in the long run. So at that point,
We said, okay, there must be this one platform that combines all of the essential resources a woman needs during the maternity period. So we did this market research without really doing it because we wanted to develop a product because we wanted to understand is there something out there. And we really found that there wasn't a platform that was accessible for women globally to get all of the essential resources. So information, firstly, of course, knowledge is really important. The second part is to understand which services could help you.
products that can also help you in these periods. And once we found out that there's nothing like it out there, we then decided to build a wireframe of what the Kala app is now. And yeah, so it was very practically thinking in that way and very organically and leading us to what we have built so far.
Janis (10:44.911)
Well, obviously my question also can be thrown back in other way and that's how I kind of intended to kind of play around with it. Like from one end, of course, you know, yeah, well birth rates may be down, but birth is the thing that always will happen somewhere in the world, at least for civilization that needs to happen, right? So as long as there are babies born, there will be need for this care. So it's obviously to me, it also sounds like a tremendous opportunity. And what you described is in very much detail, these moments which...
Obviously, if you're not an expert or have gone through pregnancy, you would not identify. Femtech overall sounds like a field with a lot of opportunities. How do you see it? Is it underserved or now maybe over oversaturated? If somebody wants to build an app in this space, what would you say?
Anna Strubel (11:31.998)
I think it's really interesting right now in the time that we are where FEMTECH is standing. Personally, I truly believe that it's just in the baby steps. I think we have not yet even understood what the whole female body really does, how all of the hormones really work, actually how does the body really work. So I think until these researches are done and we understand more, there's always room for additional technology that can enhance
health and wellbeing of women. So I do think that there's a lot of room. Definitely there are a lot of technologies out there already and I think we have to differentiate what FemTech is. So there's the female health apps that help track or just give you information, but they're really narrow focuses also that FemTech is. So it can be anything that you track your hormone levels with salvia. So...
You know, there's really deep tech in that. And I think in this deep tech, there's definitely a lot of room for more technology to be developed. As I truly believe that we have not actually reached anything much to know about the woman's body in that sense.
Janis (12:34.094)
Mm -hmm.
Janis (12:53.935)
And I was also thinking about is there a men tech type of, or men that just don't care about their health, I guess, because I mean, to me, I've seen, yeah, I've seen firsthand a lot of women tracking and following and pregnancy, especially, yeah, there are apps out there for that. I don't know, Will, are you tracking something for yourself?
Uldis (13:03.584)
I haven't heard that category.
Anna Strubel (13:05.911)
I'm going to go to bed.
Uldis (13:18.464)
It's called sports wearables. That's what men care about. There are garments and oar rings and whoops.
Janis (13:22.607)
I guess, yeah. But sounds like, but overall for let's say health for both men and women, what's your, I think it sounds like there are still opportunities out there. Yeah.
Uldis (13:39.264)
I think that there is a very big opportunity if you can convince men to care more about their health. It may be different in other countries, but at least in Latvia there is like a 10 -year life expectancy gap between men and women. So obviously there is an opportunity to somehow help to narrow that gap through technology and increasing care for your...
Janis (13:39.342)
No, what do you think?
Uldis (14:09.17)
on health. I think number one cause of death is like cardiovascular diseases which is obviously in most cases like a lifestyle choice and matter. So yeah, I think there's very big room for innovation but then also you have to then change the hearts and minds of the customers to start paying attention.
Janis (14:33.774)
That is hard.
Anna Strubel (14:36.223)
Yeah, I think it's a really valid point. And another thing that I think we in society also have is that we maybe don't talk about a lot of topics that people are dealing with. So I think there's a lot of health related things that also apply to men that is maybe just not really, really talked about that much, but a lot of startups are actually tackling it. So if it's erectile dysfunction, so there are actually technologies really
solving this problem, but it's just not really fancy to talk about. So I think this is also something that we have to take into account is do we actually really on a daily basis see everything that is being developed in these spaces as well.
Janis (15:07.534)
Hmm.
Janis (15:20.751)
Yeah, so keep your eyes open. I think listeners, I feel like it sounds like there's a lot of gaps to cover in the next few years. And obviously, yeah, Carahels is doing that, especially with pregnancy. And this is a topic that also we wanted to talk more about because this is, you know, if we take a split in like tech companies, maybe it's not 50 -50. And I guess, I don't know, the statistics depends on the country, but.
Women are very represented in the workforce as well, of course. And then at some point when families are being brought into the picture, then the woman has to take some time off because the baby comes, right? And we wanted to discuss also a bit more like how this impact the career, especially in the field such as tech, where you have every day is demanding. And sometimes we say that in two months I grew.
so much compared to other companies and what if you're out of workforce for a year and a half in that sense, like what happens, right? So all these questions that I think, I don't think I know that, for example, men don't really appreciate and they can't really appreciate, I guess fully, but let's maybe discuss some. I would say, what are the challenges from your perspective that women have to face in tech because of the fact that they just...
want to have kids, one kid, two kids, and stay away from the workforce for a while.
Anna Strubel (16:47.104)
I think there are several points to this. So one point that you mentioned is that, okay, you are planning a family and you're planning already to be away from work for a certain period of time, definitely. So I think this already implements the mental load that goes with it that I think maybe men just do not cover to that extent. There are just also studies on it that...
women just think about it a bit more. So I think it's the part of already before you're maybe actually pregnant and you're planning to be pregnant, you're already thinking about how can this impact me in the longer run. When you're then pregnant, I guess in the tech sector, and if we talk specifically about startups, then you're also in a really, really fast, fast pace company. So, you know, you
the products maybe that you are developing or that you're working with, they will probably be looking quite different when you come back. So you're already thinking ahead actually, how do I keep up with this? How do I go back to work after this period of time? So I think there's a lot of thinking process and, yeah, mental load going into it, especially for women that the men maybe don't really...
have just have on the map because they just firstly don't have to think about it in the first place. So I think that is one of the biggest points in that journey.
Janis (18:26.639)
To me, just one thing that always kind of stuck out when I thought about it, just purely mathematically, because exactly like you, let's say you have one or two kids in Baltics, staying away for a year or one and a half years, and I think Germany here as well is quite typical. Then let's say two or three kids, and then you're absent from workforce for three, four years maybe, something like that.
And I always kind of thought like this is, this creates this, this must be also part of this in quality equation in the wage gap because like one year in startup can really take you, you could get promoted basically in one year. It's not untypical, right? So let's say a male counterpart is there, can get like four promotions in that time, you know? And obviously an unfair setup, but how do you see it as someone also working in tech, having kids?
Uldis (19:16.272)
you
Janis (19:25.135)
Can women catch up basically during the time of their career afterwards or this gap is kind of, you know, is there?
Anna Strubel (19:32.673)
I think it's quite an interesting point. My thinking on it is more that, okay, what's the typical age that women get pregnant now or have kids? So it's somewhere between mid -20s and it's getting always, right now it's moving a bit towards 40, maybe 41. So you have actually quite a big range in the sense when women can get pregnant or get pregnant right now.
I think, yes, they are to a certain extent missing these years, but my way of thinking would be after that, you can come back and you can...
you can still maybe achieve the points that you would want in that sense. So I think we have to rethink, okay, do these promotions have to happen in your 20s or 30s, or can they also actually happen then in your 40s and 50s when you're in it, right? So I think that's quite important to put in there as well. I think the really hard part about this topic is that,
Janis (20:35.567)
Mm -hmm.
Anna Strubel (20:49.665)
There is really not a right or wrong. It's a fine line, really. And I think one point that really has an influence on it is the maternity policy. Also, firstly of the country, the government. So how long can you stay at home? And the other point, but also is the company maybe that you're working for. So how do they help you come back to work? How do they support maybe...
the time before or during pregnancy and then when you decide to return. So I think that there are a lot of different points to take into account for the career path of women during that period.
Janis (21:36.335)
That's a good point.
Uldis (21:36.352)
I think it's just a gen... I just came up with a genius solution to this problem. So it's a combination of all kinds of millennial and gen Z trends. So, so you combine this philosophy of what's it's I don't remember what's the term, but it's basically work hard and retire early, but there was different words there used. And now you, you get...
kids later and later and it's completely normal to have you know first kid around 40 when it used to be like you know if you're if you don't have a kid that's like 21 that it's already strange a couple tens of years ago so you basically work hard have your career retire at 38 and and then you can dedicate your life for kids so easy easy easy formula.
Janis (22:35.44)
Very easy. There was also this other formula or proposal, and I don't want to botch it, like describe it, but that men would have to take, like fathers would have to take some time off as well, like a mandatory minimum. It wasn't that long, but to be honest, I mean, it's also maybe not the worst solution. I don't know if you have seen something in some countries that...
that Estonia or Baltics could learn from.
Anna Strubel (23:06.433)
Yeah, I think me coming from Germany and now that we opened also a month ago in Berlin, I think we, I've really seen a difference in one sense and that's how you divide care work. So basically who takes care of the child. And in Berlin, in the area that we opened, it is really noticeable that the dads bring the kids to kindergarten. So, you know, I guess,
either the mother is at home and does other care work or she is already at work. So I think this dividing care work is really important. And I think it's also really important to not leave the partner or in a sense, the father out of this because they also should create a bond with that kid, right? They should have the opportunity also to stay at home. So I think this mandatory or the potential to...
have paternity leave and that is super, super important for the whole family. But it's also exactly this, how are you personally in your relationship? How do you divide certain things? Because it is possible to maybe think that the father stays at home and the woman goes to work, right? Because she maybe is in a field where she has a clear career path before her and she can achieve this. And it doesn't always have to be...
that one person stays at home. It can also change in the life cycle of you having young kids. So this dividing actually, but kind of trying to divide it equally, it doesn't mean it's always at the same point, but it can be in different years or different month, just a bit more split equally. So I think that is a really, really important and important point.
Janis (24:55.215)
Yeah, exactly. I think also society plays a role here in comparing. In that sense, Germany and Baltics, where both have lived, the split, I guess, is different here. You split the tasks. You see that around with kids more than I used to, I guess.
Uldis (25:12.768)
I was about to get offended but okay thank you for that clarification more.
Anna Strubel (25:18.944)
I'm going to go to bed.
Janis (25:20.432)
Yeah, I have seen you with your kids, don't worry, I know you're a good dad. Once or twice I've seen you. Maybe we're discussing a topic that's even, I'm just again thinking millennials and Gen Zs and especially career people, are they having, are kids even a factor there? I see statistics from millennials that obviously they're having kids later and that will end up with fewer kids.
Anna Strubel (25:23.744)
Hehehehehe
Janis (25:50.607)
they're having cats and dogs instead and it's obviously cost of life issue. I think it's just explained in a lot of sense by that. But what's your observation about millennials and Gen Zs in this area?
Anna Strubel (26:03.649)
I think one point is that they're definitely more cautious of what the impact in the long run maybe has. I think there are a lot of other things and studies from decades and decades past have actually also shown that it has to do with certain life events in the world as well. So you can see, for example, if there was a hurricane or if there was a real
like weather event, actually birth rates nine months after increased. So it's like, you know, people stay at home, they, you know, are more together, they have kids. Exactly. And so this is actually studies have shown that over and over again. So after these weather events, in a sense, there's always a spike in that. I think there was also a lot of studies around
Janis (26:44.815)
end up watching Netflix and
Anna Strubel (27:01.57)
when COVID hit. So there was a baby boom after COVID. So during this life threatening events in a sense or crisis, people do not have kids, but afterwards then it spikes quite quickly again. And this is really data from way back and it showed specifically again, once during COVID that this happens as well. Then there's the financial part as well, of course. So...
We have data on that. So I think right now we can really notice what inflation does and that the rates are decreasing. Germany and Estonia both have just announced like the lowest birth rates since I think in Germany was 2009. So this is something that we're noticing and it will be interesting to see, will it then again increase because that's the trend that normally happens, that it then comes back.
higher, but then plait holes. So I do think that millennials and Gen Z are more looking into what the impact has in sense of them maybe not having also, you know, the fertility rates of women having 3 .2 children, but then that's decreasing to maybe, you know, thinking maybe I'll have one or two.
in that sense. So I think this is a real differentiator in generations that we can see.
Janis (28:26.159)
Mm.
Janis (28:33.391)
Yeah, well, it's a different topic, actually. Also the cost of life issue, and I've looked into it a lot, and I think it's almost like, you know, maybe borderline criminal, not the word to use, but like property prices in Western Europe especially. And we know that there are elements that, you know, where governments could do to help alleviate, you know, cost of housing crisis. And we know also that governments are, you know,
people who own real estate are also in government and their friends own real estate and they also have like an interest to keep those prices up, right? So in the end, we end up with the situation when families, obviously you need a place to live before you even start thinking of family. And then that is one of the big factors that also, not the only one of course, but one of the big factors that also impact that. And I don't know, I guess, yeah, and what's your observation of Baltics in comparison to Western Europe? Is it?
Is it better and easier to start a family in Tallinn than your friends maybe back in Germany? What's your comparison?
Anna Strubel (29:42.241)
I think it really depends where in Germany you properly are. So I think, especially if we go to pricing of maybe where to live or just costs of daily living. If you're in smaller parts of Germany, I guess it's still okay. But yeah, if you're in the hub in Berlin, it's crazy to find an affordable place for you and your family there. I do think that talent is...
very family friendly, I guess, whole Estonia in a sense of their policies for family. So the maternity policy, for example. So I think, yeah, it really depends on the country where you are, or based in that country where you are located. So yeah, I think this is a big part. And then you of course have to also look at what are the average salaries. So I think we...
we often look in the tech sector, what is the average salary in talent? And then we feel, okay, this should be fine, but this is not the average that is happening in the country. So I think this has to always be relevated as well in that equation.
Janis (30:55.407)
Yeah, that's true. The tech sector in Vox is a bit of a bubble, but it's good that it at least exists and then there are a bunch of people who can get those good salaries. Overall, we talk also on this podcast a lot about work -life balance and especially, you know, we like to ask people in tech and, you know, how they have achieved it. And if we rephrase work -life, let's say family and career balance in tech, do you think and do you believe it?
Anna Strubel (30:59.969)
Hmm.
Janis (31:23.663)
It can exist, truly. Like if you are an ambitious woman, can you build your career and can you raise two or three kids in the process?
Anna Strubel (31:32.738)
I totally believe it. I have great examples. I think especially in Estonia, we have really great examples of women who have raised two plus kids and have extremely successful careers. So I think these are the role models that just show it is possible. And I have one myself in a sense, which is my co -founder.
So my two co -founders, they're married. So I guess this is a bit different in that sense, but they have a six year old child and they have been entrepreneurs since he was born. And I think I can of course not talk about it myself because I don't have kids in that way. But I do think kids enable you to a certain point to set really clear boundaries. So they are your number one priority.
And I do feel that, you know, when, when you are with your kid, you have to set the priority that you will spend time with them during this. So I think moms are really great to set boundaries and they're really efficient as well, because they know maybe that they only have limited amount of time to, to do the some, some work and they just really prioritize and are efficient in that. So.
I think that applies probably to moms and dads, the dads who do the care work as well. So it's just a lot about the planning and a big part in the maternity bubble that I am in. You always talk about it, it needs a village to raise a child. So you also need the help. So, you know, if you maybe have one of your priorities in life is also to build your career and you, you.
Janis (33:12.048)
Mm -hmm.
Anna Strubel (33:22.081)
have a good salary, then sometimes you just have to put some of that money to the sites to also get the help in house for some care work. So I think it's really finding the right fit for you and your family all together. And yeah, I think it's definitely possible to do that. I think it's a bit different maybe probably if you are a founder yourself. I think that to...
two points, so if you're an employee or a founder. But it just needs planning. I think that's a lot of it.
Janis (33:59.729)
How has it actually been touching this as a founder? So, you know, let's say you are planning a kid as a female founder. How would investors look at it? I mean, is there even a, is there maybe even a discrimination going on? I mean, maybe somebody would say like, well, you know, this, this founder, she's in that age, she just got married. She's in that age group that she will plan kids and we're going to back her company. Doesn't have kids.
Uldis (34:26.88)
doesn't have kids very high risk founder.
Janis (34:29.84)
High risk, yeah. We back her company and she will be off for a year. It's very easy to imagine that scenario, right? So what's your real life experience?
Anna Strubel (34:30.69)
Hehehehehe
Anna Strubel (34:43.714)
I honestly, I have not felt any discrimination myself in it. I would just hope that also the other side didn't, you know, implement it in some way. We do have angel investors on board and we now also have a VC on board. And I think this has just never been a topic for us. But we as founders also have really in our structure between each other set some...
legal things really clearly for us that I think as a founder you have to put also the company first. So, you know, if it's for maternity leave, so what happens actually if you have to think about it, what happens if you get pregnant? How will the structure look like? Will you still vest your shares? What's the compensation? So you have to think realistically about this and I think investors can also see it.
that you have thought about it and that you have thought about it clearly. It's not a topic that has to be discussed, but I think we probably all have heard the stories that this is a topic and I am really happy that people are speaking up more and more about it. So if it's, you know, investments agreement that say certain things, if you get pregnant or if you have kids, you know, or if it's just in your day -to -day investor meetings.
People are starting talking up about it and saying, you know, this is not okay. We should find that solution. So, yeah, I think it's becoming more and more openly discussed.
Uldis (36:23.168)
It's an interesting point whether that is starting to show up in shareholder agreements or investment agreements as a clause as obviously it can happen also unplanned and unexpected and it can be event that can very much change whatever plans you have made and then you can kind of like insurance to have thought about it before and agreed.
Anna Strubel (36:38.338)
Exactly.
Uldis (36:53.074)
Are there some kind of main things in this topic that you think founders should think about and not just female founders because it doesn't excuse men from being in such situation that you have to allocate more time for family care. So are there some main things to cover on this from your experience?
Anna Strubel (37:19.777)
Yeah, I think it's a really good point that you said exactly. I guess the worry that people have is that the woman will step out of the work or only give a certain percentage of her time to work, to the mission. But this can happen actually to anybody because you can have a burnout, you can have a bigger family emergency that's just, you know, that's not your kid, but it's maybe your parents. So...
These events can happen in whatever stage of life you are and are really, it doesn't matter if man or woman. So I think for us, we just said it really clearly that, okay, how can the company grow if one of us just is not able to dedicate all of this time? So we set a time amount that we say, okay, this is like, you know, dedicated to that you can have maternity or paternity leave, or that if you have something maybe,
as a burnout or something with your family, you can, can step out of that, that time, but it will not affect the company in the longer run because that I think is just your responsibility as a founder to, sustain that the company can run. so I think it's about how do you vest your shares if you, are, are longer than a certain period of time, not in the company. How are you compensated in that? So.
I think a lot of founders have it as well that either you have an employment contract or you have a management board contract. And if you have a management board contract, you have to really look into it because there are certain benefits that maybe do not apply to a regular employment contract. But if you have really good investors, this is not a topic that is going to be discussed. You can add a clause yourself if you are aware of it and you can add these benefits as well. So I think you just have to...
take these leaves as generally as possible and just make it quite practical. Of course, me, I would be super happy if I could leave the company for a certain amount of time. I would invest my shares, I would get the compensation, but this is not what would help the company. So I think this is the responsibility that you carry in that sense.
Uldis (39:38.048)
I think it's extremely important for everybody. It's like when you start a company, there's I think more like probably some time ago there were not many considerations that maybe until you met your first VC, you maybe didn't even have a shareholders agreement. But I think it is extremely important. And I think it's also a very good test.
Anna Strubel (39:53.697)
Mm -hmm.
Uldis (39:59.84)
for the founders, are you on the same page about these things? Do you have the same values? Do you have the same understanding? Because being thrown into that kind of situation and not having anything agreed, you might not like to find out what are the opinions of the people that you are working with after the fact. So do take time to think of some scenarios already.
in the early stage.
Janis (40:32.784)
Yeah, well, if you could advise founders and employers and managers how to make their teams and companies more inclusive and less discriminatory towards women who will be taking those maternity leaves, what would that advice be? Is there any kind of practical things, practical steps founders can take to ensure that, you know,
You're a valued talent in our company. We know that you might be away for a few months, but we want you back and we're gonna create an environment that facilitates that.
Anna Strubel (41:14.049)
Yes, there's definitely some practical things that you can do as a company. I think you always have to take into account at which stage is the company. So, you know, do you have a growth stage? Are you really, really early startup like we are? So where are you right now and what can you afford in that sense? I think if you're a bigger company and you have...
hundreds and thousands of employees, there are things that you can do. And one part is firstly during pregnancy, so giving certain benefits to the woman, but also to the family to get educated. So the thing is that in the UK, it was just shown that 80 % of women have trauma or face a trauma during birth. And 50 % of this is actually to psychological.
trauma that they experience. And what was shown in the study is that it actually mostly comes down to the education that happened beforehand. So how empowered the woman, but also the family. So the partner that's also with the woman during that period is. And this is something that the company can do because that actually also enables the woman to have a better postpartum experience and maybe also, you know, doesn't have this...
It's like PTSD in a sense, right? From trauma that you have, from birth that you can also have. So I think companies are doing this a lot already. So I guess in Estonia, a big thing is STBE. So there women can actually, so we are on STBE with Cara with our services. Women can through STBE come to our midwives, can be educated, can come to family schools and actually learn about all of these topics.
They can come to pregnancy yoga. It's super important for your physical mental health. And this is also something what studies have shown that if you support women during pregnancy with these benefits, like some sport or some mental health things that actually really increases their, their feeling of the company and wanting to come back to work as well and feeling, feeling good. And of course increases productivity for them. So it's a, you know, benefit for both sides.
Anna Strubel (43:35.297)
I think a big part is also that when the woman returns or thinking about returning, there was a study shown from Utah University and they said it would be really great to have keeping up dates so that the manager of the woman maybe who's there or the superior of the woman that you check in once in a while just to see where the company's at or where your team is at if you've led the team beforehand. So.
Just being a bit more, it can be like once a quarter or once every six months just to stay in the loop and don't feel that you stepped out and then you have, you know, you fall back into the water. And then there's something really interesting that's happening in the US and Tesla, Google, they do it. They have lactation rooms and pumping rooms. And that is something that I think a lot of companies can do. So a room that is dedicated for women to pump breast milk and
to the extent in the US, of course, because women come back to work so much earlier. Exactly. So they have to really compensate this based on general just healthcare. The VHR recommends to breastfeed your baby at least exclusively for six months and after that for two years just on the go when the baby wants it. So this you can't do in the US. So what they did is opened these pumping rooms and then also have a delivery service.
Janis (44:35.951)
Yeah, their leave is so, so short, right?
Anna Strubel (45:02.433)
So a delivery service who brings that pump milk to your family. So for me personally, I think this is absolutely awesome because I think if we look further to the next problem that women are facing afterwards, it's a lot of childcare. So it's firstly, you want to come back to work earlier, like maybe when the baby is a year, and then it's just really hard to find a childcare place, a kindergarten or something.
And I think this is a big point that if a child starts going to kindergarten, they will get sick and it will happen quite a lot. So one preventative measure that you can actually do as a company is to enable this breastfeeding journey because it's just really supportive of the health of the baby as well. Google and Tesla both also have lactation consultations for their employees. So this is something, for example, in Estonia also
woman can get through us through Stevie. So I think there is a lot of movement in it, but you can dedicate a room for women to feel safe, to pump and breastfeed during work. And it will just be more efficient than her having to run around in different rooms. I think these are the biggest points. And then the point of childcare. So I worked in a university clinic in Germany, and this clinic actually had a kindergarten for the employees.
And this was possible, of course, why does the university clinic do it? Because they really need that nurse or that doctor to come to work. Cause otherwise, you know, it will be a disaster. So they said, okay, if there's no childcare, that's a real problem for us. Not every company is able to do that, of course. And it's a process behind it. But I think some childcare aspect can be really helpful in that sense. And if you're really, really early stage startup as we are, I think we have some.
We're a bit out of the equation because our topic is literally pregnancy, maternity and babies. So 80 % of our team are parents. So, you know, there's a lot of kids in the office. Actually, we have a rule in that we say, okay, you know, if the kid cries or if it distracts somebody, then just take half an hour walk and come back and then it's fine. But this is able because we're so early and we don't have to have a lot of people in that sense. So.
Anna Strubel (47:24.481)
I think what all companies should do and that all companies can do is actually ask their employees, what would you need? How could we help you? Because there is really not that one solution that fits all. And it's really company specific in that sense. Just try an error and try to support women, but also the partner, because I think the partner is often taken out of it. They also...
wake up in the night when the baby is so and they have to go to work and also perform. So what do these both parental sides, how can you support?
Janis (48:03.28)
There's a lot of tips in there actually and I think if your company takes one or two of those already, that's a big step forward. I think we learned a ton today about these topics. Thanks, Sanna, for coming on board and sharing them. Yeah, I think we have a lot, sounds like there's a lot to improve, but hopefully...
path to do that and I hope that the career in tech at least we left with an encouraging note after this conversation that everything is possible and you can build your career and you can achieve your success and you don't have to sacrifice having kids for that. If we can live with that message I hope, if we can agree on that message you guys, I hope that's great. So yeah, thanks.
Anna Strubel (49:01.601)
That's perfect. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.
Janis (49:05.423)
All right, listeners, we see you in a week, bye.
Uldis (49:06.464)
Thank you.
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